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From the newly-innovated sayings of the Jahmites is:
I never said that Allaah is not above the throne. I said He is not in a location above the throne.
And they intend by this to negate that Allaah is actually above the Throne, and so we say regarding this saying:
- When you are speaking to a Jahmite Ash'ari, then know that what he actually intends by his words is different to what you assume he means. For when the Jahmee says:
I never said that Allaah is not above the throne...
Then in his mind it is possible that what he is thinking is "Allaah is above the Throne in rank and status" (meaning, symbolically and metaphorically) and he does not affirm Allaah Himself is above the Throne and he may not even hold that the Throne is a true and real created entity but only a metaphor, but he wishes to deceive you - and it is a necessity that their creed be established upon deception and fooling and deceiving others through words and terms, their creed cannot be established by anything other than this. To learn more about this, see it for yourself from the words of al-Ghazali (d. 505H). Thus in his mind the Jahmite knows what he intends, but he leaves you upon your own assumptions and leaves you in your naivety to take him at face value and to think his saying is honey, when it is in reality poison. Thus it is necessary that you interrogate and examine this Jahmee by asking him what he means by "Throne", is it a true and real created thing or not? And what he means by "above", is it an aboveness of status and rank exclusive to an aboveness with the Essence? You need to pin the Jahmee down and make him express the true meaning of what he is saying, because what he means and what he says are most likely two different things.
- When the Jahmite Ash'ari says:
... I said He is not in a location above the throne.
Then you should know he is equal to the Jahmee who says, "I do not say that the Qur'aan is created. I say that my recitation of the Qur'aan is created." - like for like. Because this ancient Jahmee could not find any room to say "The Qur'aan is created" because the truth was manifest and the Salaf pushed these Jahmites against the wall, and they were debased and humiliated. Thereafter, they began to squeak, wimpishly, "My recitation of the Qur'aan is created", and they used this as a stepping stone to their view that the Qur'aan is created. and thereafter they were debased and humiliated again, for the Salaf were wise to these devils.
And as for this Jahmite Ash'ari, then he found no way to deny that Allaah is above the Throne - and how is it possible for them to do so with the likes of these narrations from the Salaf, see here. So today's Jahmite Ash'aris have inherited the genotype of tajahhum of old, and you see its phenotypes expressed in both the Hulooli and Mu'attil Jahmee alike - and from such expressions that they cannot say openly is "Allaah is not above the Throne" as all people with sound fitrah would reject this from them in an instant, however they (the Mu'attil Jahmites) say:
... I said He is not in a location above the throne.
And the intent behind this is to use it in order to arrive at the following saying:
He is not
in a location above the throne.
- And the reason for their attempts to negate their is a Lord above the Throne is the same reason that Jahm bin Safwaan denied their is a Lord above the Throne. He used what was current amongst the Muslim lands, amongst the Atheist Philosophers of the metaphysics of the Greeks and of Aristotle in particular to devise a proof against some Indian Materialist Philosophers he was debating, and he argued that the presence of sifaat and a'araad and hawaadith (qualities, incidental attributes and occurrences) found in bodies (ajsaam) are evidence of their createdness, and thus the universe is created and thus there is a creator. So when those atheists said, "Fine, now describe your Lord to us", then he realized that if he described Allaah with what is in the Book and the Sunnah it would falsify his proof. Thus he turned upon the texts of the Book and the Sunnah with rejection and denied Allaah could be described with anything. And so Allaah could not be above the Throne because place (makaan) and direction (jihah) are from the incidental attributes of bodies. And it was on this basis that the Jahmites claimed the Qur'aan is created, that Allaah did not speak to Moses, that Allaah did not take Ibraaheem as His khaleel, that Allaah will not be seen in the Hereafter and that Allaah is not above the Throne - because all of that would necessitate that the intellectual proof for the existence of a creator would be falsified - because they all amount to - in the view of the Jahmites - as a'raad (incidental, temporal attributes) and hawaadith (occurrences) and this would mean that Allaah is a jism (body) like all the created bodies (ajsaam).
And the Mu'tazilah took up this view because they also used that same proof which is called "Hudooth ul-Ajsaam", and they spread the ta'teel of the Jahmites, and with force and oppression when they had political strength, until Imaam Ahmad stood against them.
And all of this was inherited by the Ash'aris through Abdullaah bin Sa'eed bin Kullaab (d. 240H) who tried to combine between the deen of the Jahmiyyah, Mu'tazilah and that of Ahl us-Sunnah. To learn more about this, please read these articles: here, here, here, here and here.
And the response to this doubt is as follows:
So try establishing or arguing:
- That the universe is infinite. It can't be done.
- That six directions do exist outside of the universe as they exist within it. It can't be done with your Aristotelian metaphysical language - otherwise you've spoken with an infinite universe.
- That Allaah has no true and real existence outside of the mind, outside of the universe. It can't be done.
- That if Allaah exists outside of the mind and outside of the universe He must be contained by six directions. It can't be done unless you can argue in favor of the points that have preceded.
- That the texts of the Book and the Sunnah as well as the innate instinct (fitrah) of people, all combined, do not amount to the saying that "Allaah is above His creation". It can't be done either.
- That there are any Scholars from the Salaf from before 300H (or even 400H if we are generous) who held Allaah is not above the Throne, or who held that Allaah is "neither within the universe nor outside of it". It can't be done. The only people you are going to find are the Jahmiyyah and Mu'tazilah!
Let the first Jahmee step forward and try arguing in favour of any of these sayings!
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